Clutch Spring

[Stray]

Hello All,

I want to revive an old topic: replacing the old XJR diaphragm clutch spring with...?

It seems my old bird has developed an increasingly annoying spot of clutch slippage. You know the type - starts revving like mad when you want to overtake, but doesn't seem to be going any faster. It's really annoying when mechanical limitations stand in the way of a little agressive progress. Anyway, the cure has long been said to be either:

1) Install a second clutch spring over the old diaphragm spring (that's probably had it from a few thousand miles of hooliganism)
2) Replace the diaphragm with a Barnett coil spring setup

Now these solutions are both said to work, though the Barnett seems to be regarded as superior (if more expensive). The extra spring approach is cheap and cheerful, but I am a little concerned that the seals will not cope with the added pressure, not to mention the bloody stiff clutch lever that will hamper slower control.

This has long been considered the end of the discussion, but I spotted something interesting today on the M&P website:
http://www.mandp.co.uk/productinfo.aspx?catref=578978&tier1url=Spares&tier2url=Clutch-Plates-and-Springs&tier3url=EBC

They are now selling an EBC diapghragm spring that is 10% stiffer than stock, for £22 excl delivery. That seems a good option to me, as it keeps the clutch lever/seals intact, and also avoids the expense of the Barnett option. Furthermore, EBC are a good reputale company whose brake and clutch bits are outstanding. The only uncertainty is whether an extra 10% stiffness is enough to stop the slipping.

Another problem is that there is no spring listed for the 1200. Is it the same as the 1300, or should I ask for an old FJ1200 spring? Does anyone know if the spring part numbers for the 12 and 13 are different?

I'm not sure how much extra pressure the Barnett adds, but it might be more than an additional 10%. It looks like it also distributes pressure better, but I cannot prove this.

Also, if your clutch is slipping because the spring is knackered, why must you upgrade/double-up? Would it not be OK to just buy a new OEM spring for another 15k miles?

The final question is whether the spring can be left alone, with high friction kevlar plates fitted instead? This also leaves the clutch action unchanged, but I was wondering if it would eliminate the clutch friction enough to eliminate slip.

Any opinions or experiences?

Stray

[4_4_2]

Stray,

My first thought is why does your clutch slip.
When was your clutch installed, how many miles has it done and how much has it been abused?

The XJR clutch , in my  5 years of ownership, has never been an issue. However I use the clutch sparingly ,dont pop wheelies with it and so it will still have lots of meat left on it. Slipping clutches, in my humble opinion,  are usually down to the friction material first and the springs only become an issue when they have been abused or they break. I would want to examine my existing clutch first before deciding to uprate it. If the plates are very worn then an OEM item will probably be as effective as anything. However if you do want to be 'aggresive' with the clutch then an upgrade is a very personal decision, do you want to put up with a stiffer action with the trade off being no or reduced slip. A heavy clutch in town traffic is a bloody nightmare on the wrists!

I am not sure if the clutch was changed from the 12 to the thirteen but I doubt it.
A quick look in a parts catalouge should tell you if they qoute two part numbers for different years, or ask your local dealer..

finally the most common problem with the XJR clutch seems to be the seals on the slave cylinder, and indeed the slave cylinder itself. Presumably you have checked that this is not leaking which would have a drastic effect on your clutch action too?

I am sure others in the group will have an opinion on this subject but bear in mind that a lot of the more active members of this forum are in Scotland on a trip this week so will probably catch up when they return.....

Cheers for now...

Mike

[4_4_2]

http://www.solocorse.co.uk/clutches-barnett-coilspring.php

more help available here.

lists a kit for the FJ 11 and 12 and XJR1200 and 1300 under the same part nuumber  £110.16

Mike

[Stray]

Thanks for the reply, Mike. Very thorough.

You're right that the clutch slave (and its seals) are a pain in the arse, but I only recently changed mine (November) and the fluid level has not moved. This, and the lack of fluid stains under the bike, shows that the clutch slave is not a problem.

You're also right to point out that a harder clutch action, resulting from a Barnett or double-spring upgrade, would be a pain in the arse (wrist) in traffic. This is exactly what I want to avoid, as well as the extra pressure these setups would put on the clutch slave.

That's why I wanted to know if this could be sorted with different/fatter discs instead, but I suspect this is also not an option.

The EBC spring (10% stiffer than OEM) sounds like a very nice middle-of-the-road option. My friction plates were changed my the previous owner about 2 years ago, so I expect (hope) they are still in decent condition. That suggests the spring might be tired, and God knows what abuse it has seen in the hands of other riders. After all, she is 16 years old - old enough to marry in the UK (and drive herself in the US!).

As the EBC spring is 10% stiffer than OEM, it will probably be about 15-20% stiffer than the one I have, as it has undoubtedly lost at least 5% of its stiffness over the years. That gives me some confidence in the EBC route.

Naturally, I will look at the disc thicknesses when the spring goes in, just in case, but here's hoping the new EBC does the business. There should also be only minimal hardening of the clutch lever action, which is a little soft anyway.

Thanks again for your help, Mike.

Stray

[Stray]

One more thing: The link to Barnett springs is spot on. I have noticed that the guy selling them on ebay is selling them for the same price on his private website, but £10 more on ebay! This is the top-rated seller of these bits on ebay.

Both the Barnett and EBC sites list the same part number for the 12 and 13 models, but the local dealer says Yamaha have different numbers for the two. Strange. Perhaps there has just been a renumbering of these parts?

Stray

[4_4_2]

Both the Barnett and EBC sites list the same part number for the 12 and 13 models, but the local dealer says Yamaha have different numbers for the two. Strange. Perhaps there has just been a renumbering of these parts?

Manufacturers/dealers have a nasty habit of creating new part numbers for the same item when a new model comes out.
The aftermarket boys are usually a bit cannier than that and save keeping costly, slow moving stock by not duplicating where its not required.

The duplicatead OEM stuff is also usually dearer for the newer part number too so if you can source the older, IDENTICAL part its usually cheaper!

good hunting..

[toez]

I run mine on Silkolene semi synth oil, it will slip when in the torque area of the power for the first 7/8 miles or until the oil is up to running temperature so although it is an inconvienience on first running it is managable......have heard numerous accounts stating similar

[Maewashigeri]

Hi Guys, for what its worth, i ordered one of the ebc springs from Wemoto and i dont want to knock them because they have been very helpful, but it appears there is a problem with getting stock from ebc and after a month i gave up and got a refund. I have since ordered and fitted the barnett conversion and it is great and with not too much extra stiffness at the lever, one thing i did notice was that as stated earlier in the posts the plates were indeed worn and this was probably the root cause of my problems but i am convinced the barnett clutch is more positive.
 

[Stray]

Welcome to the forum, Maewashigeri (or should I say, "Karate Kid"?). I am also waiting forever to receive this EBC spring - it's been over a month since I ordered and the blasted thing has still not arrived.

I think it's because they have only just started making these, and as a new stock item, the dealers don't have them available yet.

I would love to fit a Barnett but cannot afford such an extravagance right now. I'll wait a bit longer for the EBC because the clutch is not slipping too much yet...

Stray

[Stray]

By the way, I expect this new development from EBC will force the price of Barnett springs down a bit. For those of you who fancy a Barnett, keep an eye on prices for the next few weeks.

Stray

[GregXJR]

You can get a new Barnet at Tino's in Llanyrafon for £7.50.

Or am I being obtuse?

 

[XJRHartley]

Bobs in Northampton is only 5 and a half quid


 


Paul
 

[Stray]

There's a barber shop on South Street in St Andrews (Scotland) that charges £8 for a s**t haircut, but gives you a double shot of Highland Park whiskey while it's being done. Technically, he's not "selling" the whiskey so does not need a licence - it's just hospitality whilst you wait...

Anybody fancy going back up to Scotland for a quick haircut?

Stray